We spent two days with the Healy-Raes in Kerry: Here's what happened

The fire roars as the turf burns, heating the small lounge area where net curtains cover the windows and where the two Healy-Rae brothers sit, the setting could have been mistaken for the night the pub first opened in 1969.

The two brothers understand what one another is saying despite broken sentences in a bid to avoid giving away details about a constituent as a photographer snaps pictures of their fireside chat.

“He was an absolutely outstanding man,” Danny says about his father while pointing out pictures of former TD Jackie Healy-Rae on the walls in the pub in Kilgarvan, Co Kerry.

Framed pictures include Jackie peeling spuds, attending a social gathering in 1996 in the Gleneagle Hotel with Bertie Aherne, and with his beloved all-white albino horse Peig which was once stolen but later found after an appeal in the Dáil.

Like a shrine to their father, election posters dating as far back as local elections in 1985 are plastered on the walls in a separate area of the pub where a pool table stands.

A ‘cash only’ sign hangs behind the counter among bottles of stout, red wine and memorabilia in the bar where both Michael and Danny meet every Sunday night to watch a repeat of The Week in Politics, but no alcohol is consumed. Danny, despite being a publican has never touched a drink, while Michael decided to cut out alcohol eight years ago explaining he couldn’t continue to enjoy a drink while having to drive long hours on the roads across the kingdom.

Danny hasn’t far to travel, with his home house attached to the pub, while Michael is less than a 10-minute walk away from his modern home.

Both brothers dismiss speculation that they don’t have a close relationship once they disappear from the Dáil chamber.

“Well we don’t get into bed with each other or anything like that. We’re as close as we can possibly be,” Danny says.

“There’d be a lot of things we don’t have to ask each other 'what’s your view on this or that?' and there might be a few differences along the way and we’re not tied at the hip,” he adds.

In an interview days previous in Dublin, Michael said: “We’re not like two auld fellas sitting in the corner, smoking fags and drinking pints and shooting the breeze. We don’t have time for that. To answer your question, when do we sit down and talk? It’s actually always the same time: between 10pm and midnight on a Sunday night."

But there are differences both personal and political. One being, as Danny points out, he voted against the extension of the eviction ban whereas Michael wanted the Government to keep it in place, despite being one of the biggest landlords in the Dáil. They have the same view on fundamental issues such as abortion, Michael notes.

Personally, Michael is agitated when challenged about his views on immigration and his business dealings while Danny seeks to calmly explain his position on such topics.

According to his son, Cllr Johnny Healy-Rae, Danny is “what you see is what you get."

“He was a very unlikely politician. He’d hardly keep a mobile phone alongside him and if you were looking for him you wouldn’t find him. Time-keeping would have been bad but now he’s meticulous at what he does and is completely consumed and obsessed by politics,” he added.

The eldest of Danny’s six children, he said of the close relationship with his father and his sister Maura, also a Kerry councillor, that the family is “well able to express” themselves but they rarely row.

Michael’s son Jackie Healy-Rae junior is also a Kerry councillor and even though he, along with Johnny and Maura all occupy seats in different electoral districts, locals in Kilgarvan and Kenmare say there has often been rumours of political rivalry between the clans.

Jackie junior, who was first elected to the council in 2019, dismisses this speculation and says he gets annoyed that all Healy-Raes “are painted with the same brush” if one member of the political family has a certain view.

“We don’t always agree on everything,” he adds, stating there are five involved in politics but are all independent thinkers.

The 28-year-old, like his cousins, is hoping to retain his seat in the upcoming local election this summer. Joking, Jackie junior says his hair differentiates him from his father before admitting he needs to work on appearing more empathetic.

 “One weakness I have is I’m a bit too direct, too blunt whereas Dad would be a bit more empathetic. It's not that I don’t have empathy, he would just be able to break it more gently.”

In the Dáil, both Healy-Rae brothers have faced criticism when they have accused Government and some Opposition TDs of not understanding working people. Labour TD Duncan Smith said the pair “put on a political costume and caricature” and drive their Mercedes into their plant hire businesses. 

He said he would not be lectured by the Kerry TDs about understanding workers when they are the sons of millions of euro and Fianna Fáil privilege — referring to former TD Jackie Healy-Rae’s historical links to the party. It's difficult to argue with Mr Smith's point of view.

Responding to the charge, Danny says anything that either he or Michael have, they worked hard for and any money they have, they earned it and they don’t deny that.

He credits the success of his plant hire firm to his sons Johnny and Dan who run the company on a daily basis. He has seen his business boom with his own plant hire company enjoying a record year in 2022 to return profits of €1.12m.

He says that despite what it says on paper, the money is not in his pocket and denied he was a millionaire. Days after our interview in his pub in Kerry, Danny picked up the phone to make it clear once again that he wasn’t flushed with cash.

“I don’t call myself anything other than middle class or working class because I’ve worked all my life,” he said. 

He also said it was “the gospel truth” that the pub does not generate a profit and it has had fewer customers in recent years.

He did disclose despite their political bond, he never discusses business with his brother. Both have separate plant hire companies and despite Michael owning in the region of 20 properties according to Dáil records, Danny is coy about his landlord brother.

“Michael is [a landlord] I hear. That’s one thing we don’t talk about is business because he has a few machines as well so we don’t discuss business but we do discuss politics,” he adds.

Despite renting out a significant amount of property, owning a service station, a post office, and a plant hire firm, Michael also denies he’s a millionaire and one of the country’s wealthiest TDs.

Between Kilgarvan and Kenmare, it proved difficult to meet many people who had a negative word to say about the Healy-Raes, particularly among the older generation. 

However, speaking to some young adults who wanted to remain anonymous, they questioned Michael’s stance on immigration while also being in receipt of a State contract worth over half a million euro from the government to house Ukrainians at one of his guesthouses in the county.

Those interviewed believed the brothers have worked hard for the county and if they needed something done, it would only take a phone call. That was evident given that an hour-long sit-down interview with Danny was interrupted 19 times due to his phone ringing.

It’s something that will likely keep the Healy-Raes elected until they eventually decide to step aside and allow their children to continue the dynasty.

Q&A with Michael Healy-Rae

There was a charge made against you previously by Labour TD Duncan Smith questioning how you could be the voice for working-class people when you’re a millionaire and have many businesses. Explain how you actually see yourself as the voice of the working class when their lives are not your reality.

That’s a nonsensical statement for him to be making and for you to be repeating, right, because it’s not factually true.

But you do have a number of businesses…

Yeah but sure so what? I’ve small businesses that are struggling.

You’re one of the wealthiest TDs in the Dáil though?

No, that’s rubbish. That’s absolute rubbish. I’ve a shop that employs 17 people and that shop was really, really struggling the last number of years. It has lost money, right, because it’s a convenience shop, it’s a petrol station like, that’s struggling to pay its bills, to pay wages, and keep the door open. 

And like anybody that knows anything about small business, they’ll know that business is struggling. I’ve plant hire [business] if I wasn’t sitting here in a suit, I’d be up on a digger driving a machine. Again, a very tough and competitive business to be at.

But you increased your profits last year.

That actually wouldn’t be factually correct.

It was reported…

No but sure do I take any notice of what a report says? I know what way business is going and I can tell you that business is struggling and then so that’s that. 

Then with regard to property, sure of course I own property because I was at it since I was 19. And when I did the first house I was 19 and I borrowed every penny of it and I actually couldn’t even get the money from the bank. It was builders’ providers that backed me and gave me the stuff that I needed to do a job.

How many properties do you have?

I’d have a good share of properties.

You know how many you have though.

That’s the answer I’m giving you, I’d have a good share of property, right? But like I owe an awful lot of money to banks. I’ve an awful lot of obligations to run a thing like that. It takes a lot of money and it’s just like any business. 

When you’re a politician and when you’re farming, at contracting, when you’ve property and a small business like a petrol station, any of the people that come to you with problems, sure any problem they come to me with, aren’t you after having it yourself already?

Have you though? You’ve never been on the breadline or sleeping rough.

Well, tell me what politician has.

So you dismiss you’re one of the wealthiest TDs?

Absolutely.

And when you say to me that your businesses are struggling, how so?

The shop I’ve been at for 33 years, 1991 I started, I’ve never seen trading as difficult as it is now because the basic costs are so expensive. Operating a business is very difficult and you’ve to keep modernising and improving and you can’t do that because you don’t have the money so you’ve to borrow the money from the bank.

So you’ve borrowed substantial money from the banks?

Oh God, course I do, continuously. I’m continuously in debt. I’ve never in life been out of debt.

How much are we talking?

God damn you. I’m a politician. I don’t have to go telling you. How much do you owe?

I owe nothing. And you?

Well, all I can tell you is I owe a lot of money and I continuously owe a lot of money.

Does it not keep you up at night?

No, it doesn’t because sure we’re going to die anyway, what difference does it make?

Who’s going to pay it then when you die?

Oh sure I don’t know.

If you didn’t win your seat again, what else would you do to pay off this debt?

I’d be up on a digger the following day.

Speaking of money, you’ve spoken of needing a cap on the number of Ukrainians and refugees coming into Ireland. But do you think it’s credible to be calling for that, considering the money you get from the Government to house Ukrainians?

Why is there something wrong with housing Ukrainians? I house students, student accommodation, I house young couples who get HAP or RAS. I house workers, people who don’t claim any benefit whatsoever, they just rent property and they work. I house everyone else, was I going to discriminate against a person because they’re from Ukraine? I won’t take you but I will take Mrs Murphy and her son? Like that’s an awful thing. So are you asking me to be a racist so?

I didn’t ask you that.

And the other thing then, doesn’t it show I’m very credible in that, on one hand, I’m able to provide accommodation and then at the same time say ‘hold on now, we can’t have an open-door policy here that this can go on forever’ because of my intimate knowledge of the housing situation in Ireland that I know this can’t go on forever.

I don’t house international protection people because I just don’t have room for them. It never came into the equation because of what I said at the time when the Government was saying house Ukrainians, have you property? And I did. It’s a number of families that I have. But is someone suggesting that there’s something wrong with that?

The only people that have questioned me about it are people in the media and politicians shouting about it.

Danny Healy-Rae interview

Despite being criticised for comments he has made on immigration, Danny Healy-Rae is at pains to insist he is not racist.

Speaking from his pub in Kilgarvan, Co Kerry, Mr Healy-Rae says he has worked for “all communities”, including the Bangladeshi people in Killarney, and dismisses accusations he uses inflammatory language when discussing the State’s immigration policy.

He says: “I do appreciate all the people from whatever part of the world but there is a thing going on at the present time, our own people feel like they’re not getting the same level of service as some of these masses of people that are coming in now and that needs to be addressed.

“Well I don’t call it inflammatory and if the government had listened all along about a debate on the issue of a cap, that’s all we’re talking about and we’re not being racist,” he adds.

The politician says he wants the same “perks” given to landlords who offer accommodation to everyone, not just Ukrainians. Currently, the Government gives a household a €800 monthly payment if they offer a room to a Ukrainian.

"I want the same thing for our own people," he says.

"I can see what’s going to happen. Our own people are going to be looking to get into hotels or centres because there won’t be any houses."

He said the public is aware that other EU countries are not offering shelter to over 100,000 refugees and will not be fooled.

The brothers have often faced criticism for their politics. In April 2023, Mr Healy-Rae, responding to criticism from West Cork TD Christopher O'Sullivan on electric vehicles, claimed the Fianna Fáil TD "must think [he is] a complete fool."

When put to him by the Irish Examiner whether he accepts that he is a fool, Mr Healy-Rae says: “Maybe I didn’t get as much education or go to a university that they would have gone to and maybe that’s why they say it.

“I know I’m not a fool and no one will take me for a fool either... maybe they’d like to throw that at me but I don’t mind, once the people of Kerry keep electing me and I keep listening to what they want and try to do as best as I can for what they want and I’m happy then."

Climate Change

Mr Healy-Rae claims “our little country and the people running it are gone mad,” when it comes to climate change.

Despite the recent flooding which saw businesses and homes destroyed across the country, he says climate change has been happening all of the time. In 2016, Mr Healy-Rae made headlines when he claimed that "God above is in charge of the weather" and that people could do noting about it. 

He says he has “no problem” with the State moving to reducing emissions but the government has to be realistic. He says while attending a funeral in recent weeks in America he was struck by the size of the vehicles on the roads. He adds when he reads and sees what’s happening in countries like China which has ramped up its coal power, Ireland is “at nothing” when it comes to cutting its emissions.

“If I saw that they [US and China] were doing something, it would give some credence to it. But we have been over the top. Every new regulation is put on the backs of the Irish people,” he says.

When asked whether he worries about the potential impact of climate change on his grandchildren’s lives in the future, he says: “Don’t anyone dare say to me that I haven’t consideration for my grandchildren as Eamon Ryan or anyone else because I have.”

He also points to the importation of peat and coal briquettes to Ireland, saying it makes no sense when the country is seeking to reduce its carbon footprint and emissions.

"The poor cow is to blame for everything”, he argues, when discussing the reduction of emissions in the agriculture sector.