Micheál Martin's regrets? Missing the U10s indoor hurling final

"The smoking ban was coming in, and so I missed St Anthony's winning their seven-a-side indoor hurling," he says. 

"Micheál Aodh could never understand what I was doing up in Dublin. He had only one thing on his mind, and that was winning the hurling. 

"But that's just one that stands out," he says of the many times politics took him away from family life.

Nowadays, his children Cillian, Aoibhe, and Micheál Aodh, who has since gone on to play on the Cork county senior team, are a bit more understanding, even "egging" him on in his political career.

New department awaits

As Martin prepares to vacate the Taoiseach's office this weekend, he says there is no point in having too many regrets, and is looking forward to the second half of this coalition Government and his new department — whatever that might be.

Martin, who is known — and sometimes criticised from within his own ranks — for his cautious approach, wants to wait until he speaks with Leo Varadkar and Eamon Ryan today, and his own ministers during the week, before making his full intentions known. But he has a specific department on his mind.

Rumours have been swirling that Martin might like another turn in Foreign Affairs.

It's a position he last held at a time of both personal and political turmoil, having suddenly and tragically lost his daughter Léana, who died at the age of eight from a heart condition. 

An old photograph of the family sits behind the Taoiseach's desk, one of the very few personal mementoes in the office.

His first stint in Foreign Affairs came when confidence in leader Brian Cowen was plummeting.

Public statements from both Martin and other senior Fianna Fáil members eventually led to Cowen's resignation, the elevation of Martin to party leader, and the 2011 general election.

"It was a very, very difficult period personally and politically — it was quite an extraordinary period politically.

"I enjoyed Foreign Affairs, it was very, very interesting work," he says, before quickly countering that Health, Education, and Business were also "very exciting" briefs to hold.

Does he feel he has unfinished business in Foreign Affairs? 

"Not necessarily", but Martin also wants to stress that "nothing is off the table".

"Just because I have been in a department doesn't mean I am closing the door".

Interestingly, he offers that while people have suggested he take the Shared Island Unit with him when he leaves the Taoiseach's office, he doesn't believe this would be the right move, and anyway, the initiative is also shared with the Department of Foreign Affairs.

Cabinet colleagues

Asked if he made the right decision in appointing Stephen Donnelly as Health Minister, he first responds "yes" before asking: "In what way?".

But overall, Donnelly is performing well and has a substantial agenda of reform and improvement, he says.

Jack Chambers, who has been linked to a move into Health, has been a "very good chief whip" but Martin is not going to get into Cabinet speculation.

And then, of course, there is Leo Varadkar.

When previously questioned about his relationship with the Fine Gael leader, Martin said that "counting to 10 is important in leadership". 

Back in 2017, he told this newspaper that Varadkar "tends to be hyper-partisan at times" and "needs to watch that", adding that the then-Taoiseach was the leader of the country and not only leader of Fine Gael.

But Martin says both men now have a "straightforward" and "matter-of-fact" way of doing business.

Despite the "good" relationship, the three leaders haven't sat down to a meal or a drink together since entering Government.

I had a drink with Leo at one stage and a cup of tea with Eamon, but no, we haven't sat down for a proper meal or a social outing," says Martin. 

"It's been extremely hectic over the last 12 months, and I find that since the summer, it's just been seven-days-a-week.

"There's no point in going out in a forced way, you have to really be relaxed to enjoy it."

Never straightforward

In what may be his last piece of complex negotiation, the outgoing Attorney General Paul Gallagher has been tasked with organising the social outing in the new year.

While eager not to dwell on it, Martin's term as Taoiseach, which came after almost a decade of waiting on the other side, as leader of the Opposition, has been neither easy nor straightforward.

Plunged into a global pandemic from day one, he was denied many of the little perks of the office — restrictions prevented his wife Mary and children from attending his election; his St Patrick's Day White House visit was cancelled twice. 

In recent months, the war in Ukraine, the cost-of-living crisis, as well as the usual problems across housing and health, have also placed a massive burden on his time.

I was kind of ready for the unexpected because that happens in politics, but not that we maybe would have a pandemic," he says.

In a telling remark, which points to the extent to which he turns to his wife for support and guidance, Martin admits that there had been "internal rows" before stopping to correct himself to use the word "internal debates", around the 5km rule and other restrictions which were "getting people down".

Family life

Asked about having to spend long periods of his 33 years in national politics away from his family, he diplomatically says: "They are used to me, if that makes sense, they would also want me to push on to do as good a job as I possibly could.

"Aoibhe would say to me: 'What are you doing, you should be out doing a bit of work.' I think the work ethic is strong in the family, so they're kind of invested in it. They're interested in it, and they want to see things done and they would make suggestions and so on, and criticisms."

In fact, he jokes that there is now "no respite" with his family "egging me on and pushing me to do things".

"They are older now, when they were younger it was more ... probably difficult on them, you know, a lot of my Saturdays in the early years would have been clinic-based as I was going from about 9.30am on Saturday morning to 6pm when I was younger TD.

The Saturdays, when I look back, yeah, I'd like to have thought that we could have organised life a bit better on the Saturdays in terms of those long days."

But a notoriously guarded Martin reveals that he had a good way of making it up to the kids when special events were missed.

"I would have been a very good storyteller with the kids, and I would have read to them very frequently," he says.

"So reading was a big thing, telling stories, I was a good storyteller, if I say so myself, and they'd like stories around my youth. 

I'd exaggerate them, as every parent does. And so, you make it up."

Now young adults, his three children have canvassed with their father in the last two general elections and have a keen interest in politics.

Whether the Martin name continues to feature on the ballot paper in Cork South-Central depends on who wins the family argument.

"Mary has very definitive views. She would like them to pursue their careers.

"What Mary feels is that the pressures are extraordinary and particularly in the modern era, we didn't have social media through most of my career to the same extent that is there today. 

"So that's a particular pressure, it means politics is much faster, there are higher levels of issues being raised in the short term, and people want a resolution of issues in a 24-hour cycle.

"I get that, and part of me would say: 'Look, there's an easier life'."

But he adds: "When I go to a school, I say to kids: 'Be interested in your parish, your community, your country, the world — be concerned around to those around you.' So if I'm true to that, I can't say to one of my own: 'Don't bother going into politics'."

Leaving a legacy

As for his own political legacy, he acknowledges that in the years to come he will be known as the Covid Taoiseach.

"I meet people and they say: 'God, yeah, we remember we were just going to have the Communion and then you did your speech, and we were all watching to see what restrictions were coming along'," he said.

However, it is "the fundamental issues to do with housing, climate change, and health reforms, education, and childcare" that he wants to be remembered for.

A Government I led made fundamental changes, the impacts of which would be felt long afterward," says Martin.

The Shared Island Initiative is also raised as a significant achievement, but he has also been "disappointed" by the slow progress in providing therapies for children with disabilities.

Taking stock at the halfway point of this Government, Martin hopes the three-way Coalition can demonstrate that "it's not all about personalities, that you can move from Taoiseach to a different position and then carry on, that it doesn't always have to be about the individual.

"We're going to have to learn how to do coalitions well into the future, that hopefully would be a legacy of this particular Coalition."

Whether that's a Fianna Fáil coalition with Leo or Mary Lou, the only response the current-Taoiseach-soon-to-be-Tánaiste can provide is a smile.